An interview with James Dearsley and Martin Shervington!
Martin: Hello. Welcome to the Plus Your Business show. As you can tell I am well again. People may not realize I’ve been ill for the week. But I’m great now because James Dearsley is here. And Travis is here too. And we’re doing the Plus Your Business show on Virtual Reality and Marketing. Welcome too James.
James: Hey Martin. I’ll tell you what; you’re giving it to me if I put up voice by the end of it.
Martin: It’s the choice of the technology. It’s good to see you. It will be well. This is great. And we’ve got some California sunshine out there which I’ll be going to very soon. Now, James is a Digital Marketer. He is the founder of the digital marketing group bureau.
You’re going to get these today. And he is in the Plus Your Business Academy level 4 cadet. This little image, there we have. He’s a Pacesetter. And I am super keen for James to be the man on this planet that is known for Virtual Reality Marketing. In other words when you put in to that, what I want is something similar.
And this is what we do in the academy, is support people to find their uniqueness and for it to surface and search and to be the authority in that thing. So welcome James. We’re coming to talk with you in a second about VR, AR and everything else in between.
Hello to Sheila, to Tanya and to Jeff and to Dave and to Nicky and to Roxanne, and to Vicky. And everyone else who’s here. And thanks as always to Travis. Travis is pushing the boundaries and we’ve got some cool things going on, some images today which we think are going to be super crisp.
Because we’re testing things out, which is great. So, let’s come in to – for everybody the tips to start with. And I got an announcement but a private announcement in a little bit if you want to get involved with Plus Your Business further.
First of all people in the academy level 1, a simple person comes and share other people’s content. That is the level 1 tip for today. If you do that then you begin to get people’s attention.
If you add value too they share via their comments and give more content value to people than the person who has originally shared it sees that you are trying to make your network look like theirs.
The first one level 2 tip. This is on the blog for those that want this as well. Look to use URL shorteners. There’s a whole blog piece on why, and that’s great when you are on level 2. Okay, level 3. I will sing in between if you don’t.
Level 3 we are doing this slightly differently but you know it’s how crispy the images are this week. This is why we’re doing this in a slightly different way. The level 3 tip was Look to build alliances. That’s what the level 3 tip is.
We haven’t got the image to match it quite yet. I’ll keep talking. That’s the level 3 tip. Travis we’re using a different system. Actually Travis we can talk about, we are using a hangout tool box to do it as a doing as opposed to preloading.
There we go Look to build alliances. That’s your level 3 tip. Is there a level 4 tip? Is there. Go on Travis. Yeah, level 4. Tomorrow we’re going to be doing some – there some keyword analysis stuff. And level 4 to get a top Google Search result you have work really hard, so you deserve to get it.
You know what that means if you’re in level 4. You want to produce a piece of content that allow you to surface there. And the final one, the level 5 is. Think brand equity. There we go. So thank you Travis. Let’s come across. So, that’s all for the academy members. And come across to James Dearsley. How are you sir?
James: I’m well. This is my voice. It’s sort of going towards the end very slowly.
Martin: We’ll make it. It’s certainly a half hour show. We’re good. So let’s talk about, you and I like this kinkiness, don’t we? I’m going to talk a little quick back story. We connected around this probably when I did all close rifts last year.
And Travis even probably got a picture of the headset. Do you want to explain for people what it is, what it does? And then when it stops coming to the market and applications of this one stuff?
James: let’s just break it all way down to sort of very very basic. Which is you and I use to doing marketing in the real world, in the reality world which is what we have here. We are looking at reality.
We can see reality every single day and we interact with reality. And on the other side, there is Virtual Reality which is immersing yourself in a totally and utterly different world.
Where you can be immersed visually using what actually Travis has got. I know you got the same headset here which is very original.
The -- where you’re visually immersed in to that Virtual Reality on the other side which is a totally opposite end of the spectrum. And obviously there are marketing opportunities within that space. There some frightening things going on. Right in the middle you’ve sort of got and it’s very pertinent.
It’s what we’re probably going to discuss which is we got reality virtual around. We augmented which is in the middle of that. Which is essentially superimposing digital imagery of your physical presence. So in essence it’s right – it’s in that bang in the middle.
Martin: And this like a Google Glass for instance, is one device which is we know is probably going to move into a next sort of generation phase. But that’s an augmented reality device.
James: So Google hangout cause an awful lot of traffic and a lot of awareness mostly they’re aware of what Google Glass is or at least it was. Because Google Glass ceased what’s it’s called Explode program probably a month ago. But the point is yes it was Google Glass. It’s a little tiny camera.
But a little tiny screen right in front of your eye. And you’re superimposing the imagery over that view of the real world. So for example, in the real estate sector you could be looking at bare piece of earth and you could superimpose the imagery of the building which is going to be on that ground in the glass. That is superimposing digital images over your physical world.
Martin: Perfect. Okay. So I’m going to answer the question. Tanya, do I travel with marmite? No, but I did buy some at the shop the other day. And I even got a picture which was $19 which is ludicrous.
James: I love marmite.
Martin: Somebody please tag marmite in the show comments and just let them know that myself and James Dearsley love marmite and do accepts parcels of delivery wherever we are.
So James, Virtual Reality I just understand it last year on Virtual Reality and it was like you can be on the rollercoaster. And I love that. You the roller – have you played done the rollercoaster stuff?
James: I love the rollercoaster.
Martin: Or you can be in a space ship. And it feels like you are in a space ship. You are in this absorbed world. But the thing is in the future. You’re in this absorbed world but your house could be rocked at the same time because you’re kind of away from this reality.
And then you get to augment reality and it’s somewhere in between. You’re still present you’re still got there. And when people go you’re Google Glass is gone, where does it go?
There’s a pattern for contact lenses for the equivalent sort of overlays and that. This is where’s it’s gone. That we are increasingly –everything is getting smaller and everything is getting kind of closer to us.
So the future is going to be different to what we have now. And this is very early stages. What do we do then in terms of virtual reality? In terms of Oculus Rift? We don’t need to go into background. People can go and find out more on that. But as a marketer where are the opportunities then? What are the possibilities?
James: Well, I think it’s a nice thing. And I think this is actually quite pertinent. Yes you can go in and goggle Virtual Reality and find out a little bit more about it. I think the most important pertinent point here for those of you who are not familiar with what Virtual Reality means and why – we talked about some fun stuff about going on roller coasters.
But the very nature of Facebook is changing its business model. Because Facebook market book purchased the Oculus Rift by what we’ve been showing you which is put up in this screen share in March of last year. They paid $2 Billion for this for a 21 year old kid who built this headset.
It’s not the only one but the one that Facebook purchased. Why is it pertinent for us marketers? Because obviously you got two worlds. My world collided on that day. My digital marketing world and the world of the future tech and innovation.
The point is Facebook have arguably one of the biggest databases of people out there. Why did they buy it? They were loosing the millennial market we won’t believe. And they recognized that the gaming industry was when classic innovation occurs it bring symbiotic relationship between technology and why it will take off in the first place. Look at computers and microchips.
The reason that went was because there was a symbiotic relationship between too. So this is not a fly-by-night technology. It has a symbiotic relationship with gaming as is often the case and other very commercial viable opportunities. Real Estate, tourism.
The point is Virtual Reality is here to stay. Not in its current configuration. Don’t get us wrong with that Martin. You mentioned the contact lenses. The point is as marketers and this is the fossil, we’ve got to think now about where we’re going to be in five 5 years, 10 years 20 years time.
The point is this is too cranky, right? It’s too big. People are going to laugh for this. There’s a journalist I’ve heard everybody saying he put on a set of virtual goggles in an airport lounge. So, he immerses himself in a different world.
It’s not about that. It’s about gearing ourselves up for a world where it’s actually we will not know if people are in reality. Where they’re in augmented reality so they are walking – let’s use the analogy of the airport lounge where they’re walking down.
And as they’re walking down at the terminal they’re getting little alerts saying, actually you’ve signed up to XY art. There’s 20% discount here you got today. You won’t know if you’re still in that. Equally you could just be sitting down and – let’s carry on with the airport analogy.
You could be sitting down in an airplane scared out of your wits because you don’t like flying. And you could simply just say, look I don’t want to even want to think that I’m here. I’m being immersed in a virtual world which is not on a plane.
There’s a big big moving a plane in the industry at the moment to make people feel more comfortable. Give them virtual reality headset. I think it’s Virgin one of the top guys where they’re putting people elite. The point is marketing is changing. I always say that there’s the three eyes in this.
Which is as marketers in these companies, we need to look at the future being far more interactive in marketing. We need to look at the marketing world as being for more innovative. We need to innovate and using these sort of things.
But ultimately and most importantly marketing is becoming far more immersive. So, innovative, interactive and immersive. And you know what? It’s not about Virtual Reality. It’s not about augmented reality. The point is we’re going to reach a time when people will be able to select the reality they’re in.
Now we could call that interactive reality. We could call it selective reality. This is what I tend to prefer because people will have the sort of options to select whether they want to be. We need to start thinking about that now and gearing ourselves up for it. Get’s going but pretty cool.
Martin: Right. Hold that thought. We got more to discuss in a second James. That’s a brilliant introduction. So thank you. I’m going to come back to share tags of the week of the academy members Travis.
We are about to be descended upon and the dogs are about to – you’re ready for this? This could be an event. Okay. Here’s the share tag. If everybody could be tagged in the events that would be awesome.
First share tag, level 1 cadet Nicole Levac we’ve hangout. In level 1 this is great. She’s awesome. You want to add her to you circles everybody and just give a little tag on the thread if she’s not here.
So, thank you. And level 2. That’s Travis. That’s not level 2. Level 2 we have Will Munroe who is going to outstand you at some point because he writes incredibly well. He’s very detail-oriented and does some image stuff you want to see this. And I’m encouraging Will to get blogging.
And certainly start blogging in the platform. So Will is a level 2 cadet. So thank you there Travis. Level 3 is Marc-Andre Beauchamp, who is a level 3 Cadet. He is a super super friendly guy. And he’s doing great. And he’s working with Michelle -- both of them speak French. She’s good.
If you’re French speaking – anyway I failed to learn my seven languages. So if you speak French make sure you hook up with Marc-Andre and with Michelle. Please tag them folks if you could. That would be good. And level 4; guess who we got at level 4. We know who the level 4 share tag. Is a cadet.
He’s here James Dearsley. But we’re going to come back to James. So there we go. There we have James and Pacesetter Cadet. Now, coming back to James. Thank you Travis. Let’s talk about – you used a word, its kind a bit scary. And I wish I want to come on to in a sec.
Because it’s a big thing that’s happening. And I think with Plus Your Business people are starting to realize that it’s not juts about where things are on now. It’s about where things are going to be in the future.
Let’s look at a very practical application before we come to that. Around what’s just happened today Google Cardboard do you want to explain what they’ve just done?
James: Yeah. It’s a Google Cardboard. I’m trying to find an image actually. I think I’ve just moved around. I don’t know if we got an image here. But Google Cardboard so basically way way way back so we’re going to be talking about just after Facebook purchased Oculus.
The Google IO development companies around. And in the middle of the break of these great high powered speeches, Google basically gave out people. Something they’re kidding up to this. I don’t know if you guys can see this. And it’s not exactly this.
But people these developers industries have been building these random kits. What’s happening was Google Cardboard which is basically a cardboard virtual reality device. I don’t know if they’re going to make it.
But actually they were. And serious some thought that Google were trying to put on the all their developers. And it was a message they put forward which is immersion first. So, fast forward in an awful lot from there.
Now, you got Google cardboard which is a massive thing. Which basically you can use your mobile phone to put in – that’s a finished one. You put mobile phone in the device. There we go Travis has put up a screenshot there which is better than mine. The point is you put your phone in.
So suddenly you’ve got this high powered oculus stuff right where you got all these wires which are connected which is going a bit of a pain. Now all of a sudden you have a mass market which is the mobile users, right?
You can send content to people’s mobiles to everybody anywhere. There are more Smartphone in this world than people. Something we all get very exciting. Google today furthering everything they’ve already done and be off space which is basically making a massive platform for it.
They’ve just allowed – they’ve just opened which I think it’s quite an interesting move. They’ve just opened their first physical shop. And they’ve invited people using Google Cardboards to download their apps so that anybody anywhere even though the office is in the UK I think, right?
They’ve actually allowed anybody anywhere in the world to view their office. And have a 5 minute walk around with their Google employees pointing out all the different aspects of the Google experience and what you can buy as Google products.
So suddenly we’ve already talked about gaming. We’ve already talked about Pong. We’ve already talked about Real Estate. We’ve already talked about tourism. Somebody got virtual commerce which you don’t even have to go to a store.
You don’t have to go to a website. You can combine the two. Our websites ultimately did personalizing our experience of shopping. Could virtual reality personalize our experience of shopping anywhere anytime anyhow? That’s what they’ve done today.
Travis: James can I ask? Was that a video that were reviewing through? Or the example you’re speaking of? Were you walking through with Google? Is it a 360degree video?
James: Yeah, exactly. It seems to me. I haven’t done. But to what I can understand yes. It’s a 360 degree video immersive walkthrough of their store. Let’s put that into context here for a second because you bring up a really valid point Travis. Which is one month after Oculus was bought by Facebook for an enormous some of money.
Within one month every single one of a senior Facebook executives went and visited the Hollywood producers. They sat in front of them and said look, start producing immersive content. Why? Because Facebook has a lost its millennials in the winds. Why?
Because they recognize gaming and film are two imminent industries. My prediction and it’s a bit out there, is that Facebook won’t necessarily be the social network that it currently is. I recommend they need to fill the revenues.
I want to see them listed. They need to start proving themselves. And I’ve often said that Facebook will become the Netflix of the gaming and immersive film industry. It’s massive immersive film. You’ve got Jaunt only two days ago announced a massive tie out with NorthFace.
So Jaunt are 360 degrees video producer who work some things up against the throne who works on the Hobbit. And they’re tying up with big brand companies now investigating how to use interactive film, immersive film within virtual reality.
North Face has done it. Eve magazine has done it. Top shop has done it. This is all live stream 360 degree video within virtual reality environment.
Travis: You can actually even just buy attachments that go right on to your iPhone that create that 360degree video. And it’s incredibly expensive. There’s also larger of course bigger cameras nicer that are more expensive that they stream live 360 degree. And you can just watch right there through these goggles that you’ve been talking about.
Martin: Let me juts put in a question. And then I’ve got something that I haven’t told people before that there’s an app that I was going to suggest works, something to download. Chelle O’Connell says who is in level 2 of the academy. Thanks Chelle, does this include the Google Virtual Tours for Businesses? Travis you want to pick that up because you’re doing that at the moment, are you?
Travis: Yeah. In fact I just ordered and it’s funny we’re talking about this. I just ordered Google Cardboard I’ve started the program and I want use that as an ability to show those that don’t have the business view done that they can put this on and go through their story in that way.
Right now we are just audience. It’s a still as these virtual steers right now that you can move through. But I would imagine it’s going to move towards 360 degrees videos as well.
And interactive where you can be able to click on to different aspects maybe within the story that allow you access or more understanding, more information or even to buy.
Martin: Cool. So the business application most often James to be looking at photos for it. You got to think this is juts really early days. But if you want to display then this is where it’s going to go. You are going to need to have 360 because otherwise it’s going to merges to it and you’re going to need an interface.
And this is why Cardboard removes the barrier the obstacle that a lot of people have which I don’t want to spend a couple hundreds of bucks. I think Google will probably have a bit of a chuckle of the time.
Because they’ll say, look you can just put the phone in there. Google and Facebook just spent 2 billion which is pretty funny. So we can see that there needs to be an interface at the moment. There needs to be the content. And it’s happening.
If you got Cardboard or what you’re having is worth getting to understand what’s going on, and a lot of these is going on from your mobile device. VRSE- Virtual Reality it’s VRSE Virtual Reality this is a film that was created for Sundance. And it’s almost 3 minutes long. And I downloaded it.
Is one of those things, I watched the first time. It’s pretty high though 5 minutes long. James have you tried this?
James: I’ve heard about it. I haven’t done it myself.
Martin: Mental is the word I would use. I did it. And the second time I was with a friend. And he and his wife were there. And I stood up. And I loved the rollercoaster one. And that’s first fun. And I gave it to them. And I said, sorry I did it again.
I didn’t get it the first time this first one. And I put it on and I watched it. Please, if you’ve got Cardboard do it, right? It’s a crazy experience. I put it on and there’s a train that comes towards you and then you look down and something happens.
And then this thing happens. I didn’t realize what has just occurred. Somebody eventually would come up and go, oh my God. What a punch – James you’re going to go, oh, it’s true. That was just mental. And what they have done is managed to tell the story that you’ve never expected to be told. And the emotional experience that you have.
I don’t want to give up the punch line. And because it’s crazy. But this is where it’s going. That was at sundown. So, a filming festival using VR high quality. The interface was only Cardboard and you feel something. And you go, oh it’s true. That is the power of it. And that app is free to download. James.
Travis: What was the name of that real quick Martin? That app.
Martin: VRSE- Virtual Reality for Google Cardboard.
James: And let’s juts talk about that because I think it’s one of the fundamental principles of where virtual reality marketing is going to go. Because not only is it re-addressing every aspect of the business model.
We talked about some fun stuff. We talked about virtual meetings, our hangouts are going to change. Because you could be simply in a virtual meeting with people in virtual reality. It’s there. I’ve seen it. I’ve been involved in a meeting with people in virtual reality in different countries in a built up environment didn’t even exist.
Travis: Do you think you can move through like a 360 degree video through a hangout?
James: No. not for a hangout. If you can tie out Virtual Reality headset with Microsoft Kinect systems because we said they detect movement. And you in the sense could be totally on the other side of the world. And you could be tied up through server systems.
They could see you as an avatar. And you could be inside. Let’s take real estate for example, you could be in a development doesn’t even exist and you buy. The realtor could be in New York and the potential client to be in Russia.
And in theory you could meet in this room that doesn’t even exist. And your countries it’s mind bobbling. But what I wanted just to make a point on which is very very system.
The marketing application for this for people looking at this is that the very nature of 360 degrees story telling is shaping the very nature and the very call of marketing film making.
What you just said there Martin actually you – you just like, oh my God I’m immersed in this thing. I’m looking what’s going on. And wow I didn’t expect that to happen. To bring it quick because I thought this is so important. And it was from one of the key guys who said it’s going to require a complete rethinking of story telling.
A complete rethinking of art. That’s how the how is going to work. And to put it even more pertinently on this, and I’ve got soaked up to buy it. I can’t even know where to go.
Martin: I like that word. Pertinently.
James: That was it because imagine if you’re in filming, right? If you actually talking with directors and say we want to film 360 degree immersive reality and go, okay, cool, right, bring. The fun thing for the users like us is we are central to the story.
So one of the big challenges is saying, okay, how heck do we film when the viewer can look where they want to look? They can view where they want to look. But obviously directional sound. Because when you look that way in reality the sound is different to when you’re looking on the phone.
So that’s a challenge in terms of story telling. But fundamentally there’s a practical challenge. Where the hell did they filmed you? And the sound guys go and the runners and the directors?
Travis: You’re talking about my world now. And that’s like even just continuity alone -
Martin: We’ve got 4 minutes left.
Travis: Just for you James and the rest of you all. They do have 360 degrees cameras that also have different sound around it. Like it’s picking up three or four different angles of sound as well. So the equipment there YouTube is gearing up to allow for 360 degree video YouTube soon as well.
Martin: So it’s happening. And this is the thing. We got 3 minutes left. We got a couple of things to do. Travis, firstly everybody wants to know about hangouts, get in touch with Travis. Travis is there. So tag him on the thread. Get in touch.
But also Travis is integral to what we’re doing in Plus Your Business going forward. So this is – very good. He’s also doing trusted photographer. So if you’re in San Diego we’re going to be chatting about that again. Okay. Last few minutes.
So first of all spam of the week this week is literally going to be this because I failed to find anything. This is spam original. I took this photo in a shop in America. I haven’t taken spam for years.
I went to the filter in the UK community. Trust me, there’s nothing that you would want to see on that hangout that I found this week in that. James, you could throw some of the spam out the community once in a while. By the way as your model agent in the UK.
James: That’s the problem.
Martin: Nobody wants to look at that Spam filter. Anyway. So that’s fun of the week. You’re not going to have any this week. We’ll see what happens next week. Maybe a special spam day.
Last two minutes James, what do people need to do who are watching this that – a lot of people they’re not the big movie companies. People are trying to how they can get involved. What are the practical steps for people to take?
James: There was no such thing as a practical step when it comes to Virtual Reality. Quite Frankly it is so – in theory it’s so out there. I just think people need to be aware of it. they need to follow it.
They need to understand it. They also need to accept that you know what? Because it has this whole area symbiosis in the sense of it got industries that’s interested in it. It’s got Google. It’s got Facebook interested in it. Start using it. Have fun it. That’s the main point of how this will be cool, right?
Martin: Understand it as well. Experience it. Understand it. Feel it. it changes.
James: Everybody can download the Google camera app. Everybody can go to eBay and get a Google Cardboards for 15 pounds. They should be 500,000 Google Cardboard units at $45. Not that expensive.
And you know what? Have fun with your family. Have fun with your kids. Have fun with friends. Create experiences where they’re going to go, wow that’s freaking amazing.
Because I can tell you now you’re always so far ahead of it than anybody else just because you’re having fun with it. And you’re then getting an understanding. And you will be --
Martin: Perfect. Thank you so much James to be the guest on this week’s Plus Your Business Show. Thanks to Carolyn Darden for giving the link to the download. We’ll go ahead to the app that I suggested.
Very finally Travis we have tool of the week which is steady demands. If we can just bring up that. And if we could tag steady demands in. so that’s particularly useful if you are managing Google pages.
And somebody could tag them in the thread that would be marvelous. Thank you to Nina and to Tanya and to Monica. And to Chelle and to Sheila. And again to Carolyn and Julie and Matthew. And everyone else for watching.
Thanks for being here. That was Plus Your Business Show. See you next week. Thank you so much James and thank you as always to Travis.
[end of transcript]